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  • What do you think about the new film Against the Tide?

     Eric Smith updated 7 months, 4 weeks ago 5 Members · 8 Posts
  • Historical Faith Society

    Administrator
    February 11, 2021 at 7:39 am

    What do you think about the new film Against the Tide?

  • Earl Coludrovich

    Member
    February 11, 2021 at 12:52 pm

    I find John Lennox and the video to be delightful breath of fresh air.

    If we consider for a minute

    E=M*C*C

    Did Einstein get it right ? If so, how can one get energy, matter, and light speed from nothing ?

    So our Universe does seem to obey relativity, and there is a balance of mass, energy, and the speed of light. He who “causes to become” has manifested it to be so.

    What beauty we see in physics and math and how we appreciate the wonder of these miracles of Intelligent design if we simply open our eyes.

    I am motivated to propose another equation of my own bias.

    E=M*C*C

    Where:

    E represents Everlasting life

    M is man

    C is the power of Christ squared

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    February 13, 2021 at 8:31 pm

    Against The Tide 17:50 (seventeen minutes, fifty seconds) Richard Dawkins: “Religion teaches us to be satisfied with not really understanding.”

    The Bible:

    “I run in the path of your commands, for you have broadened my understanding.Teach me, LORD, the way of your decrees, that I may follow it to the end. Give me understanding, so that I may keep your law and obey it with all my heart.” (Ps. 119:32-34 NIV)

    “I gain understanding from your precepts; therefore I hate every wrong path.
    Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path. (Ps. 119:104-105 NIV)

    “The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.” (Ps. 119:130 NIV)

    “My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding–indeed, if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding, and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God. (Prov. 2:1-5 NIV)

    “Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding, for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her. Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. Her ways are pleasant ways, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her; those who hold her fast will be blessed. By wisdom the LORD laid the earth’s foundations, by understanding he set the heavens in place; by his knowledge the watery depths were divided, and the clouds let drop the dew. My son, do not let wisdom and understanding out of your sight, preserve sound judgment and discretion; they will be life for you, an ornament to grace your neck. Then you will go on your way in safety, and your foot will not stumble. When you lie down, you will not be afraid; when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet. (Prov. 3:13-24 NIV)

    “Get wisdom, get understanding; do not forget my words or turn away from them. Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding. Cherish her, and she will exalt you; embrace her, and she will honor you. She will give you a garland to grace your head and present you with a glorious crown.” (Prov. 4:5-9 NIV)

    “The one who gets wisdom loves life; the one who cherishes understanding will soon prosper.” (Prov. 19:8 NIV)

    “For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives, so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.” (Col. 1:9-12 NIV)

    “My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.” (Col. 2:2-4 NIV)

    “I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ.” (Phlm. 1:6 NIV)

    “Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.” (Jas. 3:13 NIV)

    “We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.” (1 Jn. 5:20-21 NIV)

    I’m not a Greek scholar but I also noted that the scripture traditionally interpreted as to “love God with all your… mind” is in Mark 12 rephrased by a man talking to Jesus as including as “understanding.”

    “The most important [commandment] ,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. (Mk. 12:29-34 NIV)

    Well, I’m just 17 minutes into the film. Thought I’d share that thought since I decided to research it being as I was just exposed to that Richard Dawkins quote. I’m sure not all those verses might be used by someone debating Richard Dawkins, but it appears that Richard Dawkins missed the importance that scripture places on understanding. Yet Christians should be prepared like John Lennox if they wish to start engaging atheists. The word of God gives incredible understanding and in the early verses of Proverbs it is explained that the Biblical book of Proverbs itself is a resource for those who want to develop the ability to think better. and even “give an answer.”

    “Be wise, my son, and bring joy to my heart; then I can answer anyone who treats me with contempt.” (Prov. 27:11 NIV)

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    February 13, 2021 at 10:29 pm

    One hour ten minutes and forty seconds into Against The Tide. John Lennox casts attention on the question Jesus asked the disciples at Caesarea Philippi. “Who do men say that I am?” The backdrop was a Roman city filled with Roman and Greek temples. John Lennox here recognizes that understanding other viewpoints is helpful in the context of addressing them. Though I’m going to keep watching the film, my thoughts flicker over to Peter telling the Jews in Jerusalem “These men are not drunk as you suppose.” My thoughts also go over to Paul who addressed other cultures and Greeks bringing to their remembrance overlaps between the sayings of their prophets and teachers with the gospel and good news that he was bringing them. And John Lennox was gifted in being prepared to address other viewpoints by the guidance of his dad in his earlier years when he was young and developing his mind.

    Not everyone is called to deeply engage with other viewpoints, Yet it is better to understand other viewpoints than just to mock other viewpoints with derisiveness. We are called to be ” Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.” (Eph. 4:15 NIV) Also the prior four verses and the four following verses add some helpful thoughts. They deal with God preparing other people to teach other people and also that we are to keep a clear mind that can serve God with understanding.

    Back now to the movie.

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    February 13, 2021 at 11:43 pm

    1:25:52 into Against the Tide. Richard Dawkins doesn’t understand the love of God.

    “I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge– that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
    Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
    (Eph. 3:16-21 NIV)

    “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (Jn. 13:34-35 NIV)

    Richard Dawkins: “John Lennox believes that the creator of the universe, the God who devised the laws of mathematics couldn’t think of a better way to rid the world of sin, than to come to this little speck of cosmic dust and have himself tortured and executed so that he could forgive himself. That is profoundly unscientific.”

    This is why the greatest commandments involve love — not practicing science. Science in some contexts can be a venue to promote love. But science without love can also lead to weapons of destruction capable of killing millions or rather billions of people. Science has its limitations and can just as easily be a source for great evil as for good. It is neutral. Was it Einstein (despite his flawed views of religion) who made a statement like “Religion without science is lame, science without religion is blind?” Let us be glad that what Jesus brought was something much more valuable than science.

    Having said that, I see some flashes of great honesty in Richard Dawkins and I won’t at all be surprised if he ends up embracing Christianity at some point. We can hope and pray. We ought to pray.

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    February 14, 2021 at 12:41 am

    All by itself, this film might not be a great evangelistic tool in all circumstances. Christian love has a great value as a witness. Yet Against the Tide should be a good tool in dialing down the volume of some who oppose God and cite science in their opposition to God.

    One of the biggest challenges is that our love not grow cold.

    “Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold,
    but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.” (Matt. 24:12-13 NIV)

    Jesus gave a parable of a sower. Some seed sprouted up quickly because it was shallow but had no root and then withered in the heat. Some seed fell among thorns and got choked out.

    John Lennox grew in his faith through challenges. The word of God is suitable to give us growth, patience, endurance, love etc. We don’t all have perfect knowledge. Jesus didn’t attempt to dump all his knowledge on the disciples. (John 16:12-15) The disciples ended up having lots of discussions as God did his work in changing the makeup of the early church. It required a spiritual mind. Few were prepared for the fact the church was going to embrace Gentiles. One thing for sure is that love is going to be necessary for us to be proper servants of God as the he does whatever he is going to do through HFS.

  • Keisuke Matsumoto

    Member
    February 17, 2021 at 2:48 am

    “Cosmology is waiting for its Darwin.” -Dr. Dawkins (around 25:00)
    I think many people assume cosmology already has its Darwin. This would help them reconsider their assumptions.

    Thank you so much for the great film! I love it!

  • Eric Smith

    Member
    February 22, 2021 at 4:40 pm

    I have yet to see it but two things immediately struck me from the trailer.

    One person, Dawkins I think, said “Religion teaches us to be satisfied with not really understanding.”

    That is furthest from the truth.

    Another claimed that Religion is never challenged. Its been challenged since its inception. These two are supposed to be very intelligent but even a little examination into history and just reading the Bible will tell you these two statements are incorrect.

    I am particularly interested in what Dr. Lennox has to say. We have a couple at the church I attend who have children struggling with the apparent conflict between being a scientist and a believer. It need not be that way. I’ve suggested they read “In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Choose To Believe In Creation”. I suspect this will be another witness to people with the same issues.

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