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  • Late date (Ramesses) vs. various early dates

  • Historical Faith Society

    Administrator
    December 18, 2020 at 4:24 am
  • winston james

    Member
    January 10, 2021 at 10:55 am

    I need to change my credit card info where do i go to do something like this on the site?

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    January 20, 2021 at 8:15 pm

    Moses wrote the following before the Israelites were to enter the promised land.

    ERV Deuteronomy 11:4 and what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red Sea to overflow them as they pursued after you, and how the LORD hath destroyed them unto this day; (Deut. 11:4 ERV) (Now the NIV) translates it as everlasting ruin. The Hebrew uses the words “this day” or “these days”. I understand Ramesses was a great and powerful King. The King who plundered the riches amassed by Solomon after Solomon died would have powerful and rich. The Pharaoh of the Exodus would live in ignominy and have been ruined. I find David Rohl’s chronology appealing here.

    I believe the Israelites left much, much earlier than the rule of Ramesses.

    • Ken Griffith

      Member
      April 13, 2021 at 8:28 pm

      Considering that this is the mummy of Rameses, I’d say you are right, Thomas.

      II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ramses2_(2).jpg

      Courville and Stewart both argued for a 12th Dynasty Exodus.

      Ginzberg says the tradition of the Jews is that it was Merenre II of Dynasty 6.

      My own view is that each of the five main cities in Egypt had their own king, who was more like a mayor. At various times different dynasties were the high king over the others.

      Dynasties 3-6 ruled in Thebes in parallel to Dynasties 10-12 ruling in Thebes, and Dynasty 13 were the viziers starting with Joseph, who became vizier in the third year of Sesostris I.

      Sesostris III was the pharoah who made the decree to kill the infants. Amenemhat III stopped killing the babies, but continued the oppression, along with his contemporary Pepi II.

      Moses was Amenemhat IV who disappeared after 10 years of co-reigning with Amenemhat III. His adopted mother ruled for a few years after his disappearance, and then Dynasty 12 died out. Pepi II was the Pharaoh that sought Moses’ life, and God called Moses back as soon as he died. His son Merenre II was the main Pharaoh of the Exodus, who drowned. But Ka-ankh-ra Sobekhotep was the Dynasty 13 ruler who also died that year, maybe in the night of the firstborn.

      The Amu/Hyksos invaded right after the Israelites left Egypt. In this view the first and second intermediate periods were the same four century rule of the Hyksos.

      • Ken Griffith

        Member
        April 13, 2021 at 9:14 pm

        Typo above:

        Dynasties 3-6 ruled in Memphis (not Thebes) in parallel to 9-10 in Heracleopolis, and 11-12 in Thebes. Dynasties 1-2 in Thinis also overlapped until Dynasty 2 was ended with the famine of Joseph.

      • Thomas Donlon

        Member
        April 14, 2021 at 4:14 am

        Hi Ken,

        If you are posting a link … it is broken. If you are trying to post a picture, you might be able to post the picture in the News Feed. I recollect, at least in the past, people were able to post pictures there, but not into Discussion Threads or topics.

        I have seen or come across a number of alternate timelines for Pharoahs suggested. Certain names and timelines were put out in Patterns of Evidence Exodus by David Rohl. And I think I may have heard several more here on the HFS society by different contributors. Some ancient sources point in different directions on things like this? I believe it would be compelling for anyone to hear that a specific ancient source says Moses relates to this time frame or this person. But different people have (I think) pushed different conclusions using different ancient sources.

        I’m not at all suggesting or aware that you are wrong. I do though think I’ve been exposed to different viewpoints and will need to grasp the proper mechanisms or approach to understand which views have most value. And this gets even harder for me as I tend to forget names and I lack the necessary historical knowledge to keep these different Pharaoh’s distinct and understand the particulars of their reigns. And then some of these personages have the same names with different numbers at the end.

        To me though the evidence is beyond question that the Exodus far predates Ramses or Ramesses (spelling variants here?). And I’ll try to review what you wrote and get a better grasp for how things may have all fit together.

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