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Home Forums Evidence in Egypt for the Exodus Late date (Ramesses) vs. various early dates

  • Late date (Ramesses) vs. various early dates

  • Historical Faith Society

    Administrator
    December 18, 2020 at 4:16 am
  • Ron Bublitz

    Member
    May 17, 2021 at 1:24 am

    I’m wondering if anyone has seen anyone or have done it themselves – working with the cycle of Sabbath years and Jubilee years and how they can determine the exact date of the Exodus? The Exodus takes place in Year 1 of the Sabbath cycle. This means it’s also the start of the Jubilee year cycle. The Bible also states that Solomon’s 4th year was the start of him building the Temple which was also 480 years after the Exodus. The temple took a certain number of years to build. And when you chart that out, you find that the Year of Jubilee was just a few years after – very likely when he dedicated the Temple. So there are some anchor points which can be shifted as a complete block.
    Now to anchor it in exact time, consider it very likely that even though God initiated the cycles in the Exodus instructions, His cycles could have been going on since the Creation. So if you determine the 7 year cycles back to the beginning, you can get the exact year of the Creation to anchor to. If the Jubilee Year is anywhere near this date, that is amazing corroboration that the dates are correct. And it turns out, it is.

    I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere. I can’t have been the first to figure this out.

    • Thomas Donlon

      Member
      May 18, 2021 at 11:17 am

      Your thinking is ingenious Ron. Yet, perhaps the seven year cycle for land rests was to start when Israel entered the promise land?

      The LORD said to Moses at Mount Sinai,
      2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD.
      3 For six years sow your fields, and for six years prune your vineyards and gather their crops.
      4 But in the seventh year the land is to have a year of sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD. Do not sow your fields or prune your vineyards. (Lev. 25:1-4 NIV)

      And also, regarding Jerusalem Daniel believed it would be desolate 70 years. This could have been a misunderstanding on Daniel’s part, he wrote, “I understood…” or perhaps this is a separate 70 year event and the desolation of Jerusalem didn’t end till years after Cyrus gave the order that Jews could return to Jerusalem. Like maybe when the wall was rebuilt or the city of Jerusalem somehow got up and running at an earlier time.

      in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. (Dan. 9:2 NIV)

      • Ron Bublitz

        Member
        May 18, 2021 at 10:53 pm

        The NIV contains a very unfortunate translation here. It gives the totally wrong idea. Here is the ESV: I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

        Notice the NIV says the entire period of desolation would last 70 years. That is not what the original text says. It says the fulfillment of the 70 year period would be the end of the time Jerusalem would be uninhabited. This can be easily checked in a Hebrew interlinear. The ESV captures this sense much more accurately.

        There is no other 70 year period described. It is the same reference to Jeremiah’s words as in IIChronicles.

        I wrote an entire book describing all these issues in very much detail.

        • Thomas Donlon

          Member
          May 18, 2021 at 11:31 pm
          This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. (Jer. 29:10 NIV)

          Very interesting Ron. I appreciate you sharing this. The expansionist phase of Babylon (the “empire”) being referred to rather than the length of Jerusalem’s destruction. Seventy years between the destruction of the temple and the start of the building of the new one would have greatly limited the number of people who had seen the former temple. Ezra 3:12. Not many of those who would have went into captivity (being old enough to remember it) would have been engaging in the long march back to Jerusalem and then been around for the reconstruction of the temple. Scripture says

          But many of the older priests and Levites and family heads, who had seen the former temple, wept aloud when they saw the foundation of this temple being laid, while many others shouted for joy. (Ezr. 3:12 NIV)

          So, it makes sense what you are saying.

    • Ron Bublitz

      Member
      May 19, 2021 at 12:58 pm

      To address the original topic and after all of this discussion/evidence, the Exodus year was 1457 BC. This differs from the proposed year stated elsewhere on this website. But I do not think they have taken into account the Sabbath year cycles yet in their research.

      • Deborah Hurn

        Member
        May 19, 2021 at 9:05 pm

        I have forgotten now which is the year derived from biblical chronology… is it 1447 BCE? Where does your extra 10 yrs come from? or is that a loooong answer?

        • Ron Bublitz

          Member
          May 20, 2021 at 1:24 am

          lol. I see. To be brief. I don’t know. The year I state is what has been gleaned from the Biblical info and seems to be confirmed by the various cycles and patterns I’ve been sharing.

    • Ron Bublitz

      Member
      May 27, 2021 at 5:43 pm

      I honestly expected there would be more interest in this.

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    May 17, 2021 at 2:02 am

    Hi Ron,

    I haven’t researched any of this. Yet I was wondering recently if there is any historic evidence of the Year of Jubilee being practiced. I’ve not seen mention of it (being actually practiced as opposed to just instructed) in scripture, yet I’d expect some record of it (if done) in Jewish writings. Same goes for the cycle of Sabbath years (letting the land rest from planting) every seven years, that you just referenced, there is no mention of that being practiced in scripture that I can recollect either. But I’d expect that this would (or could) have been done during periods of Israel’s higher dedication to God. Have you seen historical evidence in Jewish writings for either of these being practiced?

    • Ron Bublitz

      Member
      May 17, 2021 at 9:08 pm

      Yes, there is historical evidence – in the Bible.

      He took into exile in Babylon those who had escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and to his sons until the establishment of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days that it lay desolate it kept Sabbath, to fulfill seventy years.” [emphasis added]

      Unchecked Copy Box 2Ch 36:20-21

      So Israel did keep the Sabbath cycle. But they also failed to keep the Sabbath cycle. They were removed to exile in part so that the Land could catch up to the missed years. Notice it does NOT say that 70 years was the time of the exile or the number of missed Sabbath years. The key is “by the mouth of Jeremiah”. What did Jeremiah prophecy?

      For thus says the LORD: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place.

      Jeremiah 29:10

      The 70 years was connected to the judgement of Babylon not Israel. Israel’s judgement was contained within that time period. But the exile was NOT 70 years as is usually assumed. Babylon Empire began in 609 BC and was ended by the Persians in 539 BC – 70 years.

  • Thomas Donlon

    Member
    May 18, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    There is also a belief that every third year a special or additional tithe was to be collected.

    When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied. (Deut. 26:12 NIV)

    Some have supposed this to be the third and sixth year out of a seven year cycle.

    Additionally there are indications that perhaps another tithe was to be used to attend religious festivals.

    Deut 12:17 and Deut 14:23.

    But the main point that MAY connect with what you are writing is that the cycles of seven MIGHT be the framework from which the three year cycle (if it is counted within the seven year cycle) is derived. Otherwise there is a whole other series of cycles to add to the cycles you are already looking at Ron.

    • Ron Bublitz

      Member
      May 19, 2021 at 12:02 am

      I’m not sure if the third year in Deut 26:12 is connected, but there does seem to be a theme running through history that the third/fourth day of the week is connected to God’s provision of Salvation.

      This takes a bit of explanation to build. To begin, the Exodus timeline of days can be reconstructed. It becomes evident that the Exodus took place on a Wednesday with the Passover at the start of that day. Remember that Jewish days start and end at sundown. Since Passover always occurs on the 14th day of the first month, it will always be full moon. The first day of the month is always just after the new moon. Counting back, the first day of that month is a Thursday (the 5th day of the week).

      If you map out Creation Week, you will find that the very first day that could be determined with a completed sun and moon system was the 5th day of the week – Thursday. This seems to be very significant.

      For if you take the time cues given in the Passion Week narrative, the crucifixion must have taken place on Wednesday with the Passover in the evening at the start of that day. It takes too long to develop this but basically a Friday crucifixion does not allow 3 full days as Jesus Christ predicted he would be in the grave for. This can be confirmed by using the proper intercalation cycle used at the time, the NASA eclipse tables, and the unchanging cycle of fig fruiting – they all point to 31 AD. The calendar of the first month of that year had the first day on a Thursday and that resulted with Passover taking place on a Wednesday.

      If that doesn’t blow your mind enough, the cycle of Sabbath years that runs through history shows that 31AD is the 4th year of a cycle – the mid point – the “Wednesday” year.

      And looking at the most probable birth year of Jesus, that was also the mid point of a Sabbath year cycle.

      Now here I put myself even more on a limb. But if these cycle are regular through out history, then they also occur in to the future. Based on the 70Weeks found in Daniel and the 430 Day prophecy in Ezekiel, these both point to the exact same year coming up. This “just happens” to be the mid point of a Sabbath year cycle. And that particular year also has the first day of the first month start on a Thursday – that significant arrangement.

      And that year “just happens” to be 6000 years from the year of creation which has the exact same calendar arrangement ie. first day of the first month is a Thursday.

      When all these cycles intersect like this, it is amazing confirmation. Of course, many people will say it’s all hogwash. But when I first discovered this, I didn’t massage any of the arrangements to manipulate this. When I worked it out, it just fell in front of my eyes. I could not believe it at first. I tried to disprove it so many times. But it just works out like this.

      But…one has to be put aside tradition in several areas. That is hard to do for many people. You have to allow the facts and math to tell their story. Your preconceived ideas can play no part.

      • Deborah Hurn

        Member
        May 19, 2021 at 7:16 am

        Ron, for my MA thesis (not examined because I got upgraded to a PhD program after one year) I compared the Passover weeks of the exodus (from Egypt) and eisodus (to Canaan) with the progression of events in Holy Week. On 29 April in this thread:

        How many days and how far per day to the sea?

        I explained how the water crossing came halfway in each of these weeks (the week after the first Passover and the week before the first Passover in the Land). Someone ^^ was/is having a lot of fun with patterns and numbers. And left them there for us to find out 1000s of years later.

        I can confirm the first Passover and the crucifixion were both on Wednesday, and can also confirm that the relevant year when Passover fell on Wednesday was 31 CE. I wasn’t aware that 31 CE fell on the 4th year of a ‘Sabbath’ cycle of years, or that this might also have been the case for Jesus’ birth year. And that this pattern continues all the way back to Creation, and forward to the eschaton.

        But this kind of mathematical precision doesn’t surprise me, in fact I would expect it. I discovered that the whole wilderness itinerary is organised in sets of three, i.e. everything is in threes. The journey proceeds in three stages (Goshen to Sinai, Sinai to Kadesh, Kadesh to Jordan), hence three starting points and three destinations. There are three stations per region all the way from Goshen to the Jordan River. Three water miracles, three wind miracles, three sets of three days, three battles in the Cisjordan, three in the Transjordan, and on and on. Scores of sets of three.

        I am surprised nonetheless that you think the 6000-year mark since Creation is still coming up. Who got the calendar wrong, then, and how?

        • Ron Bublitz

          Member
          May 19, 2021 at 10:01 am

          Thanks so much for your reply. Fantastic to get confirmation like this. You don’t know how lonely it is to do this research and have no one even interested in it. I have tried to talk to all the pastors I’ve known, sought out profs at theological schools, tried to contact well-known prophecy teachers. No one will give me the time of day. Always rejection and sometimes hostile derision. It’s like no one wants to think and examine things logically anymore. I’ve sat on this information for more than 10 years already.

          As to the calendar, I don’t have all the answers to that one. I can only tell you my opinion. There seems to have been a concerted effort to hide key information so that the dates of Jesus Christ are especially not known. Is that the work of the enemy? Or did God purposely hide it so that it wasn’t so obvious? I have read some words in the Jewish literature that they did not want any connection with Jesus Christ as Messiah so that could play a role here too.

          The common knowledge that year 1 AD marks the birth of Jesus Christ is pretty much confirmed to not be accurate by scholars who investigate this. Just one of many proofs is that Herod the Great was already dead in 1 AD. The monk who set the modern Christian calendar did not leave his math tables and no one has been able to work out how he set 1 AD.

          Also everyone seems to think the birth of Jesus is the important year. I would suggest and it seems to be evident in my research, that the year of His death/resurrection is actually the important year marker. That is the year of the world’s salvation.

          What’s more, people who have looked into this do find that there are a series of definite 1000 year ages. With my research, the dates coincided very well.

          Creation
          1000 – death of Enoch (within a few years)

          2000 – death of Noah, birth of Abraham (within a few years)

          3000 – the first temple is completed (to the year)

          4000 – the death/resurrection of Jesus Christ (to the year)

          5000 – (haven’t found any major reason)

          6000 – the probable return of Jesus Christ (to the year); beginning of 1000 year reign

          7000 – the end of Earth time

          It gets even more interesting when researching the Jewish calendar since that should be what is used to date events with the Jewish people and the Bible. Almost all scholarly works that I have read and any historian that I’ve managed to talk to uses the modern Jewish calendar to set dates in antiquity. I’m so very surprised at this. There does not seem to be an understanding of history going on. Do people not recognize that the modern Jewish calendar was set by HIllel II in the 4th century AD? What evidence is there that this was the calendar used before that time? People just assume it was and use it to set dates centuries before.

          The modern Jewish calendar can not be correct. It has noticeable calendric drift over the centuries. The requirement that the first month be based on both observation of the New Moon AND the state of winter wheat for religious festivals was removed by Hillel. Of course, there was no more need since the Temple was destroyed and the majority of the Jewish population had been dispersed. Even if they wanted to, the state of the world did not allow for reporting of the wheat harvest in a timely manner.

          So that was the first clue I had to work through. What was the calendar like before that? When you study the life cycle of winter wheat in that area of the world, you find that God set it to be used like clock work. It does flower/fruit roughly around the spring equinox (that’s why Hillel used the equinox) but it occurs slightly before. That is the first discrepancy which makes the modern method inaccurate.

          Second, because of the calendric drift, the start year of the intercalation cycle needs to be known. The intercalation cycle is the Metonic cycle of 18 years – 2 or 3 year gaps between adding an extra month to keep the calendar in sync with the solar year. Which one of 3 possible years should you start the Metonic cycle on?

          If you work out the state of the winter wheat, this will keep the intercalation cycle correct throughout history. I’m just amazed that God used this in this way. So you can work it out and see that the modern Jewish calendar is one year off in its intercalation start year. This means, relying on the modern calendar to date historical events is totally inaccurate. This is what has lead to wrong dates by scholars for Jesus’ birth and death specifically. And a lot more.

          How else can this be confirmed? It was like Indiana Jones. I found a long out of print book that dealt specifically with all the calendars of the cultures of the area. It was published in the 1850’s and hasn’t been published since. The work is a translation of a moslem scholar who wrote in circa 1000AD and lived in the area. He outlined how all the calendars worked. He included mathematical tables. One of his tables was the series of Metonic cycles used and the year that the cycle started for certain cultures. The start year used in the Babylon area was different from the start year in the syrian area and was different from the modern Jewish calendar. Here was written proof that the intercalation cycle started in the same year as the life cycle of winter wheat that I had worked out.

          And again, no Biblical historian wants to hear any of this. You would think they would love to find out this information. But I suppose the whole house of cards is built so high that no one can threaten their foundations. And who am I – I’m a nobody – not in their circle and could not possibly know anything about anything.

          And once you investigate how God has used eclipses to mark most of the significant events in Jewish history, your mind will explode. But these can only be seen if you use the proper intercalation method so that the dates match up exactly.

          • Deborah Hurn

            Member
            May 19, 2021 at 10:47 am

            I’ve sat on this information for more than 10 years already.

            Ron, I am in my 23rd year now since working out the exodus and wilderness itinerary in a huge rush of passion and revelation in 1998-99. For the majority of that time I have felt the same as you describe… lonely, crazy, and a failure for not finishing the work and publishing it. This exodus research has been a terrible burden, consuming my life while also blessing it with purpose and mission. But I found out I need not have felt so bad for the grinding process and slow progress. God is on His own timetable for releasing information to assist faith in the last days, and will crank us all along the tracks in the right order and speed. In the meantime we learn more, think it all through, and untangle more knots so that the final product is 100% better than it would have been. I am now very thankful I didn’t publish in the first decade. But if I had known then how much more there was to learn and process, I could not have continued. Just the other day while posting on this forum I discovered another set of three… the three wind miracles (locusts, Red Sea crossing, quail). I already had three water provision miracles (Marah, Sinai, Kadesh). I bet there are yet more to find and there are already about 40 sets! And just the process of writing this dissertation has sorted out lots of remaining questions.

            The mathematics patterns of biblical chronology are profound. There are patterns of patterns, and sets of sets. I was going to post yesterday that we need a ‘yeshiva’ (from “to sit”) for the maverick chronologists. I know you guys all chat on various dating forums (not that kind of dating, haha). But this topic needs its own conference. If we can ever travel again, it needs to happen. Can’t be done online. But it won’t be a nice collegial conference like others I have gone to. Everyone has their pet theories (this is why no-one will pay attention to any of them) which are disconnected from each other. Some of those theories need to be weeded out, or at least picked over for the useful bits and the rest discarded. What I would hope to emerge is a better master-chronology which is a working composite of the ‘best of’ insights, but can only be hashed out by huge debates, sigh. Would you come?

            • Ron Bublitz

              Member
              May 19, 2021 at 11:03 am

              I’d be interested. However, there would need to be serious rules set. Treat people with respect. Critique the idea not destroy the person. I’ve experienced such hateful treatment from people I thought were Christians.

              Also, like you state, many people have their pet theory. It is very, very difficult to consider another theory without putting aside the biases you have for your own. People must be able to project themselves into and honestly consider the pros and cons of each theory with as little bias as possible. Not sure how that can be done.

              l guess what I’m trying to say is that there needs to be an objective way of looking at things as much as possible.

            • Ron Bublitz

              Member
              May 19, 2021 at 11:27 am

              “I know you guys all chat on various dating forums”. Actually I am not on any other forum other than this one. Mainly because this group of people I consider as very honestly seeking and onto the actual factual data. I do read of other peoples’ attempts and all the many attempts published in the past. I can easily dismiss most of them due to errors in assumptions: basically if you don’t deal with the intercalation method, you are wrong from the start. This has nothing to do with their theology or bias for my research. I constantly look for ways to disprove what I have researched and discovered.

              ” God is on His own timetable for releasing information to assist faith in the last days,”. That is a very profound and true statement. I have always prayed that God would use this information if He wants to. I wrote and published my book in obedience. If God wants it known, He will take care to. I have tried to get it to “knowledgeable” people for promotion. I even tried contacting the founder of this website. But as of yet, totally ignored.

              This all started because I have always wanted to know the actual truth. I do not want to believe lies. I knew that Christianity has so many traditions and they are not based on facts. The date of Christmas, for example. One day, I stood up and stated aloud to God, you answered and blessed Solomon in his plea for wisdom. Why can’t you do the same for me? I want to understand Your work throughout history and work out what is true and what is not. Would you open my eyes and guide me? I believe He did since the majority of this research happened within the following 2 weeks. But it has taken years to add to and find more and more confirmation. Of course, it all could be wrong and like I said, I would welcome if someone would show the fatal flaw. However, at this time, there are so many interconnected cycles and matching dates and different elements, it’s hard to understand why this hasn’t been discovered before. And I haven’t even shared half of what my research has uncovered.

          • Ron Bublitz

            Member
            May 19, 2021 at 12:03 pm

            And I just reminded myself of another obvious confirmation. I looked at what I just wrote and laid out with the 1000 year ages of history. Notice that the exact mid point of the week of 1000’s is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The “Wednesday” of that group of 7. This is the significance of 3 (1/2). He sacrificed Himself on Wednesday of the week of days, Wednesday of the week of years and Wednesday of the week of 1000 year ages. Amazing.

            Also, the last age is an age of rest when Christ rules over the Earth Himself which coincides with the Sabbath day. I think most have known this for a while.

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